请教529 college saving account 问题 2/14/2011 15:04
请教529 college saving account 问题

想给宝宝存一些钱上大学,想给宝宝存一些钱上大学,我们虽然不可能全付学费,到时宝宝可少贷些款,

问了Fidelity,说只hangdle 529 five state plan: Arizona, CA, Delware, NH and MA 529 plan. 随便看拉2010十大 best 529,好像UTAH,Viginia,South Carolina 等较好。那个agent 说买MA plan,因为我居住在本周, maybe legislative will give some tax credit some day... 我是听了云里物里,生怕买错了。请给些建议吧

有时真想不通,最富裕地国家上大学还要自己副学费( I even have to pay daycare),我自己到全是国家负担地。 confused

thanks
529 is a black box, once your money is put in, it is trapped there for a long time.

Not good in my view, except the potential tax 'benefit'.

Mayrain :
请教529 college saving account 问题

想给宝宝存一些钱上大学,想给宝宝存一些钱上大学,我们虽然不可能全付学费,到时宝宝可少贷些款,

问了Fidelity,说只hangdle 529 five state plan: Arizona, CA, Delware, NH and MA 529 plan. 随便看拉2010十大 best 529,好像UTAH,Viginia,South Carolina 等较好。那个agent 说买MA plan,因为我居住在本周, maybe legislative will give some tax credit some day... 我是听了云里物里,生怕买错了。请给些建议吧

有时真想不通,最富裕地国家上大学还要自己副学费( I even have to pay daycare),我自己到全是国家负担地。 confused

thanks
Bono at 2/14/2011 15:29 快速引用
Then what do you suggest?

Thanks
Mayrain at 2/14/2011 15:58 快速引用
Bono :
529 is a black box, once your money is put in, it is trapped there for a long time.

Not good in my view, except the potential tax 'benefit'.

Mayrain :
请教529 college saving account 问题

想给宝宝存一些钱上大学,想给宝宝存一些钱上大学,我们虽然不可能全付学费,到时宝宝可少贷些款,

问了Fidelity,说只hangdle 529 five state plan: Arizona, CA, Delware, NH and MA 529 plan. 随便看拉2010十大 best 529,好像UTAH,Viginia,South Carolina 等较好。那个agent 说买MA plan,因为我居住在本周, maybe legislative will give some tax credit some day... 我是听了云里物里,生怕买错了。请给些建议吧

有时真想不通,最富裕地国家上大学还要自己副学费( I even have to pay daycare),我自己到全是国家负担地。 confused

thanks


支持你这个想法。同样为将来存钱,如果你付学费只取出本金的话,其实放进Roth-IRA里面更好,得到类似的税务好处(放进的时候不免税,取出的时候盈利部分免税),而Roth具有可以以其它理由取出本金的优势,而且也可以声称那钱是为退休用的,对申请奖学金稍微更有利些。
WoJian at 2/14/2011 16:05 快速引用
不知你是否会惊讶,如果我说529 比较多的用处是Estate Planning. 因为contribution limit 较高,是个比较好的产品,很多美国人用来 remove assets from taxable estate,不用在乎Gift tax。与Roth IRA比,其他的免税的好处应该不多,在MA也是不可以做到tax deductible. 而且万一将来宝宝不上大学,有可能达不到投资效果。Bono 说这个产品是无底洞,有其道理,因为投资的time horizon有一定限制。Roth的问题是有contribution limit, 而且你要根据你的风险耐力,time horizon, 还有投资目的选好用那种投资vehicle,比如stock, bond, money market。

如果你是一个比较保守的人,you can't tolerate to lose any princinpal after investing for a certain period, 请容许我推荐一个评级最高的人寿保险公司产品的whole life来做这项投资。如果你已经有很高的保额,保险可以放在孩子身上。目前这是我所知道的唯一不用在申请大学financial aid填表时disclosed的财产。 如果你有兴趣了解更多,可以email me at wjin@ft.newyorklife.com. Welcome to my website for more information: www.wenpingjin.nylagents.com

All said above is for information only.
花溪 at 2/16/2011 16:04 快速引用
花溪 :
不知你是否会惊讶,如果我说529 比较多的用处是Estate Planning. 因为contribution limit 较高,是个比较好的产品,很多美国人用来 remove assets from taxable estate,不用在乎Gift tax。与Roth IRA比,其他的免税的好处应该不多,在MA也是不可以做到tax deductible. 而且万一将来宝宝不上大学,有可能达不到投资效果。Bono 说这个产品是无底洞,有其道理,因为投资的time horizon有一定限制。Roth的问题是有contribution limit, 而且你要根据你的风险耐力,time horizon, 还有投资目的选好用那种投资vehicle,比如stock, bond, money market。

如果你是一个比较保守的人,you can't tolerate to lose any princinpal after investing for a certain period, 请容许我推荐一个评级最高的人寿保险公司产品的whole life来做这项投资。如果你已经有很高的保额,保险可以放在孩子身上。目前这是我所知道的唯一不用在申请大学financial aid填表时disclosed的财产。 如果你有兴趣了解更多,可以email me at wjin@ft.newyorklife.com. Welcome to my website for more information: www.wenpingjin.nylagents.com

All said above is for information only.


Kind of makes sense.

my other concern is lack of competition in any state owned 529 funds. Once your money settled in, you have no other choice but 'wish' it perform well.

We all know the dirty side of human nature, so 529 is NOT good for working classes. I still have a loss on my 529 account long after the crisis in 2008.

But I also have concerns on whole life. Do your own due diligence before you make a decision please.
Bono at 2/16/2011 16:30 快速引用
Bono,

Whole life with the best rated MUTUAL life insurance company is not a bad idea at all. You need to see the illustration to make an informed decision. I sell mutual fund too but I am not a mutual fund peddler. If you believe in diversification, whole life can help reduce your portfolio risk and may even enhance your return. If you like, you can 短信 me your email and I will send you more information and keep in touch. Thanks!
花溪 at 2/16/2011 22:14 快速引用
花溪 :
Bono,

Whole life with the best rated MUTUAL life insurance company is not a bad idea at all. You need to see the illustration to make an informed decision. I sell mutual fund too but I am not a mutual fund peddler. If you believe in diversification, whole life can help reduce your portfolio risk and may even enhance your return. If you like, you can 短信 me your email and I will send you more information and keep in touch. Thanks!

Thank you for the message。
I already have a term life insurance for the lowest possible cost, not interested in anything else
Bono at 2/17/2011 16:04 快速引用
Agree with Bono. He is quite savvy in this. You should heed his advice!

Bono :
花溪 :
不知你是否会惊讶,如果我说529 比较多的用处是Estate Planning. 因为contribution limit 较高,是个比较好的产品,很多美国人用来 remove assets from taxable estate,不用在乎Gift tax。与Roth IRA比,其他的免税的好处应该不多,在MA也是不可以做到tax deductible. 而且万一将来宝宝不上大学,有可能达不到投资效果。Bono 说这个产品是无底洞,有其道理,因为投资的time horizon有一定限制。Roth的问题是有contribution limit, 而且你要根据你的风险耐力,time horizon, 还有投资目的选好用那种投资vehicle,比如stock, bond, money market。

如果你是一个比较保守的人,you can't tolerate to lose any princinpal after investing for a certain period, 请容许我推荐一个评级最高的人寿保险公司产品的whole life来做这项投资。如果你已经有很高的保额,保险可以放在孩子身上。目前这是我所知道的唯一不用在申请大学financial aid填表时disclosed的财产。 如果你有兴趣了解更多,可以email me at wjin@ft.newyorklife.com. Welcome to my website for more information: www.wenpingjin.nylagents.com

All said above is for information only.


Kind of makes sense.

my other concern is lack of competition in any state owned 529 funds. Once your money settled in, you have no other choice but 'wish' it perform well.

We all know the dirty side of human nature, so 529 is NOT good for working classes. I still have a loss on my 529 account long after the crisis in 2008.

But I also have concerns on whole life. Do your own due diligence before you make a decision please.
三石 at 2/17/2011 16:35 快速引用
I agree Whole Life is not for everyone, however, if your married filing joint income is over $169k, and you are not even qualify for Roth IRA, you may want to look into whole life or other permanent life products for tax benefits. The key is tax deferred growth and tax free withdrawal, not just tax deduction. If your objective is to pass as much as possible of your assets to your next generaion, you need to think long term and think of estate planning, think of which assets will pass probate court, and you will know term life is good for some people, but permenent life can also be valuable for some others. One thing doesn't fit all.
Retirement planning is for yourself, and estate planning is for someone you love, and guess which financial product is very valuable for estate planning?
花溪 at 2/18/2011 16:56 快速引用
花溪 :
I agree Whole Life is not for everyone, however, if your married filing joint income is over $169k, and you are not even qualify for Roth IRA, you may want to look into whole life or other permanent life products for tax benefits. The key is tax deferred growth and tax free withdrawal, not just tax deduction. If your objective is to pass as much as possible of your assets to your next generaion, you need to think long term and think of estate planning, think of which assets will pass probate court, and you will know term life is good for some people, but permenent life can also be valuable for some others. One thing doesn't fit all.
Retirement planning is for yourself, and estate planning is for someone you love, and guess which financial product is very valuable for estate planning?


Thanks , please ask me again in 40 years.

Besides, the whole currency system is on fire and you are asking me to devote more income into this paper money based system to save on future 'TAX'.

That is not my primary concern at all.
Bono at 2/18/2011 17:07 快速引用
Come on Bono, I am not asking you to do anything. You don't have to agree with me at all. It doesn't mean we can't be friend or get to know each other when we cross our path, it's a small world.
I think most people would agree to look for financial products which give tax benifit to grow your money, especially for people in a higher tax bracket. Tax eats your earning. We know very well the social security system is not well and was not designed to depend on for retirement. Everyone needs to save for future retirement. The problem is not everyone has 401k plan at work, not everyone qualify for Roth IRA. We also know this country tax people live and dead. Again, one thing doesn't fit all.
花溪 at 2/18/2011 17:32 快速引用
花溪 :
Come on Bono, I am not asking you to do anything. You don't have to agree with me at all. It doesn't mean we can't be friend or get to know each other when we cross our path, it's a small world.
I think most people would agree to look for financial products which give tax benifit to grow your money, especially for people in a higher tax bracket. Tax eats your earning. We know very well the social security system is not well and was not designed to depend on for retirement. Everyone needs to save for future retirement. The problem is not everyone has 401k plan at work, not everyone qualify for Roth IRA. We also know this country tax people live and dead. Again, one thing doesn't fit all.

我是个完全不懂理财的人。。所以问个多半极度愚蠢的问题不要介意哈:你为什么不考虑买bond呢?
vieplivee at 2/18/2011 21:12 快速引用
花溪 :
Come on Bono, I am not asking you to do anything. You don't have to agree with me at all. It doesn't mean we can't be friend or get to know each other when we cross our path, it's a small world.
I think most people would agree to look for financial products which give tax benifit to grow your money, especially for people in a higher tax bracket. Tax eats your earning. We know very well the social security system is not well and was not designed to depend on for retirement. Everyone needs to save for future retirement. The problem is not everyone has 401k plan at work, not everyone qualify for Roth IRA. We also know this country tax people live and dead. Again, one thing doesn't fit all.


我并不想加入你们的争论,但我要纠正一个有关Roth IRA的信息。

从2010年开始,布什建立的取消从IRA转到Roth IRA的收入限制政策开始实行,所以现在高收入的人只要通过先存nondeductible IRA,然后再转成Roth IRA,就已经可以实现“曲线”符合存Roth IRA条件了。
WoJian at 2/19/2011 06:40 快速引用
vieplivee :
花溪 :
Come on Bono, I am not asking you to do anything. You don't have to agree with me at all. It doesn't mean we can't be friend or get to know each other when we cross our path, it's a small world.
I think most people would agree to look for financial products which give tax benifit to grow your money, especially for people in a higher tax bracket. Tax eats your earning. We know very well the social security system is not well and was not designed to depend on for retirement. Everyone needs to save for future retirement. The problem is not everyone has 401k plan at work, not everyone qualify for Roth IRA. We also know this country tax people live and dead. Again, one thing doesn't fit all.

我是个完全不懂理财的人。。所以问个多半极度愚蠢的问题不要介意哈:你为什么不考虑买bond呢?


他们在讨论的是一个不同层面的问题。

理财的第一层面,不是说什么赚钱什么保险,而是如何把财产合理分割成各种板块,取得最佳的组合效率和你想实现的风险控制。还有能契合中长远的大笔开支的目标(比如这里Mayrain考虑的子女学费)。其中需要考虑的很大的一个因素,就是税务问题。

长期投资才要考虑税务问题的,这是因为避税对利滚利的效应有很大的影响。

比如同样把10万元存20年,如果你放在外面,与放进退休账户(在这个比较里面,假设本金存入的时候是nondeductible IRA),最后的结果就会有很大的不同。

比如假设你两种方法的投资对象是一样的,每年都是8%的收益,然后放在外面你需要每年为盈利交25%的税,放在退休账户你每年不交税,但最后取出的时候一起为盈利交25%的税。这样的结果,一般的人会以为最后的结果是一样的,因为盈利的税率都是25%。

但是,外面因为每年交税,所以在外面的账户,利滚利的指数基数是1.06,也就是说税后6%盈利,10万元的20年总盈利是32万-10万=22万。

而在退休账户里面,利滚利的指数基数是1.08,所以10万元的20年税前总盈利是47万-10万=37万,再去掉这部分盈利要交的税,37万-9万=28万,最后的结果比上面要多出6万。

存入的年份越大,最后的结果的差别也就越大,这样做也就越是值得。

Bono说的是,虽然有这种可能的好处,但把钱锁定进退休账户的损失是太大了。

我一直在推荐Roth IRA,就是那样又可以拿到长期的好处,本金的部分也没有说就被锁定了,想取是可以取出来的。上面同样的投资方法,如果是放进Roth IRA的,那么,如果你是退休了以后取出的,对37万你可以不用交税,平白多出了9万给你退休用。

而那10万本金如果你在退休以前碰上急需了,或者你找到了什么更加好的去处,比如你找到一很好的房地产deal,那你也可以不用交税就提前取出来。

中间取出,当然最后的盈利部分就不是37万了,但你实现了把长期目标转化为短期用途的机动性了。实现了这个机动性以后,你的盈利部分不取出的话,照样可以继续享受长期的税务好处。(

如果你不得不把盈利的部分也在中间取出了,那你就撞上了把钱放进Roth IRA的唯一坏处了。那个盈利部分不仅要交税,而且还要交额外的10%提前取出惩罚税。但我们在说的是额外的10%而已,而且还只是对于盈利的部分,不对本金,所以风险真的是不大,基本上就是只有好处没有坏处的。(开总说担心以后联邦法案会修改退休以后不用交税这一条,我认为即便修改,也应该只对修改以后存入的钱有效)

花溪在说的,是如果你家财产总额超过两百万了,那么就要考虑传给子女如何规避遗产税问题。

你说bond,有没有什么好的bond可以推荐的呀?我听说以前一个汽车制造公司给员工的bond年利息是12%,让我很是羡慕的。当然后来那个bond垮了,但前面的收益显然是足够了。说起bond,我倒想起一个心中的疑问来了,政府为什么限制个人购买I-bond每年不能超过5000呀?我没看出限制的理由来。
WoJian at 2/19/2011 07:24 快速引用
vieplivee :
花溪 :
Come on Bono, I am not asking you to do anything. You don't have to agree with me at all. It doesn't mean we can't be friend or get to know each other when we cross our path, it's a small world.
I think most people would agree to look for financial products which give tax benifit to grow your money, especially for people in a higher tax bracket. Tax eats your earning. We know very well the social security system is not well and was not designed to depend on for retirement. Everyone needs to save for future retirement. The problem is not everyone has 401k plan at work, not everyone qualify for Roth IRA. We also know this country tax people live and dead. Again, one thing doesn't fit all.

我是个完全不懂理财的人。。所以问个多半极度愚蠢的问题不要介意哈:你为什么不考虑买bond呢?


VV, bond是投资的一个产品,可以在IRA里买,可以在529里买(但是个人无法控制,得看529
管理公司),也可以在whole life insurance里面买

谢谢我见的解释,我的看法也是类似的,529和whole life insurance
说起来的好处是税务上的优惠
但是你失去的是灵活性。如果你需要应急的话,放在里面的钱不容易拿出来(或者费用高)
whole life 的管理费用会比较高,而且每个月(或者每年)的保险费用比Term life 高不少

对我个人来说,选择term life 更有效
Bono at 2/19/2011 22:45 快速引用
Bond有corporate bond, government bond, 按不同的风险分不同的等级,一般来讲,AAA rated bonds 没什么风险,但是回报率会比高风险的比如junk bond 要低。投资上总是高风险,高回报,低风险,低回报的。 你也可以单独买bond, 但是放在IRA,529里有tax benefit. But Muni bond earning 是免税的。 whole life insurance 中的投资组合你没有选择权,因为风险是公司承担的,公司有保障最低限的回报。只有在VUL里你才有选择权,因为这种保险风险是有你承担的。

This is all for information only.
花溪 at 2/19/2011 23:50 快速引用
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