• Johann
  • 注册于:2004-09-20
  • 帖子:10060
发表于: 1/09/2006 14:33 发表主题:
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If you treat searching as a special form of computing, you have to stop at the right time to get the correct answer.


peachleaf 写到:
wildcrane 写到:

To know, to accept, and to entertain our limit need a sense of perspective and a sense of humor, in my opinion.


Agree.
And I am OK with the possibility that we might never find the ultimate truth.
But I still enjoy the searching. smile

  • breezy
  • 注册于:2005-01-20
  • 帖子:9225
  • 所在地: Boston
发表于: 1/09/2006 14:38 发表主题:
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Johann 写到:
If you treat searching as a special form of computing, you have to stop at the right time to get the correct answer.


peachleaf 写到:
wildcrane 写到:

To know, to accept, and to entertain our limit need a sense of perspective and a sense of humor, in my opinion.


Agree.
And I am OK with the possibility that we might never find the ultimate truth.
But I still enjoy the searching. smile


不是说正确答案总是converge的吗,多循环几次还是那个值. confused
  • Johann
  • 注册于:2004-09-20
  • 帖子:10060
发表于: 1/09/2006 14:44 发表主题:
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正确答案是在圆周上的一点,每转一圈都会经过一次,但每转一圈都会同样面临在哪儿停的问题。

breezy 写到:
Johann 写到:
If you treat searching as a special form of computing, you have to stop at the right time to get the correct answer.


peachleaf 写到:
wildcrane 写到:

To know, to accept, and to entertain our limit need a sense of perspective and a sense of humor, in my opinion.


Agree.
And I am OK with the possibility that we might never find the ultimate truth.
But I still enjoy the searching. smile


不是说正确答案总是converge的吗,多循环几次还是那个值. confused

发表于: 1/09/2006 16:19 发表主题:
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I believe that it is the questioning, thinking and searching itself that makes human human, but not getting the ultimate truth.

Johann 写到:
正确答案是在圆周上的一点,每转一圈都会经过一次,但每转一圈都会同样面临在哪儿停的问题。

breezy 写到:
Johann 写到:
If you treat searching as a special form of computing, you have to stop at the right time to get the correct answer.


peachleaf 写到:
wildcrane 写到:

To know, to accept, and to entertain our limit need a sense of perspective and a sense of humor, in my opinion.


Agree.
And I am OK with the possibility that we might never find the ultimate truth.
But I still enjoy the searching. smile


不是说正确答案总是converge的吗,多循环几次还是那个值. confused

  • Johann
  • 注册于:2004-09-20
  • 帖子:10060
发表于: 1/09/2006 16:56 发表主题:
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但有信仰的人也还是人啊?

peachleaf 写到:
I believe that it is the questioning, thinking and searching itself that makes human human, but not getting the ultimate truth.


  • Annie
  • 注册于:2004-09-20
  • 帖子:7448
发表于: 1/09/2006 17:24 发表主题:
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oops 进错贴了
Laughing


一个茶杯上看到的:
As life unfolds itself, you'll find everything you need has always been there. smile
  • Nike
  • 注册于:2005-07-25
  • 帖子:2596
  • 所在地: Boston
发表于: 1/09/2006 17:32 发表主题:
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你是想说迷信的人也是人吧?

Johann 写到:
但有信仰的人也还是人啊?

peachleaf 写到:
I believe that it is the questioning, thinking and searching itself that makes human human, but not getting the ultimate truth.


  • ayu
  • 注册于:2004-09-20
  • 帖子:2348
发表于: 1/09/2006 18:20 发表主题:
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Laughing Laughing Laughing :!:

Nike 写到:
你是想说迷信的人也是人吧?

Johann 写到:
但有信仰的人也还是人啊?

peachleaf 写到:
I believe that it is the questioning, thinking and searching itself that makes human human, but not getting the ultimate truth.


  • WoJian
  • 注册于:2005-01-19
  • 帖子:13725
发表于: 1/10/2006 19:30 发表主题:
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wildcrane 写到:
Laughing Laughing Laughing

my dear friend, as a scientist, when you ask these questions, you know you are in trouble (at least at this stage), don't you?

Luckly, science is simply a tool, not truth itself. so it's ok that you are challenging it. What you are searching innerly now is truth, and you are questioning whether science is the tool to find ultimate truth. But does it exist a truth or truthes? Along this path, you will find more questions than answers. You will be only satisfied if you enjoy the process of searching and questing. If you indeed want an answer, you will be constantly frustrated.

Wolcome on board, my friend. smile


There are some beautifully written books on the limit of science, and the science of limit that I have, if you are interested. They are not going to answer all of your questions. But the process of searching, questioning and attempting to address the questions are beatifully presented - that (beauty in quest) probably is more important (closer to truth) than searching truth itself.

To know, to accept, and to entertain our limit need a sense of perspective and a sense of humor, in my opinion.

I also think you will enjoy greatly these two books by Hermann Hesse:

SIDDHARTHA

NARZISS UND GOLDMUND (Narcissis and goldmund)

I see an original piece written from heart. Congratulations!

happy support rose rose rose Success


不知道那书里面写了些什么.我感觉科学不仅是局限的,而且是局限太大了.

打个比方,有那样一个真理金字塔,所有可观测的现象就是第一层.因为人推理的步骤数目的局限,和所依赖的测量仪器的局限,科学只是在几个有限的事实基础上爬上了一两层推出了部分的定律.连一两层都没有充满,更不要说更高的或者塔尖了.

但是,人的脑子到底还是适应能力比较强,能够凭"灵感"得出更高级的一些结论和一些猜测,所以才有了哲学,宗教.
_________________
全世界变暖,原来不是气温更高,而是水分蒸发加快,旱灾水灾雪灾加重,天气大起大伏。

---我见 :)

  • Greentea
  • 注册于:2004-09-20
  • 帖子:3170
发表于: 1/11/2006 15:26 发表主题: Re: 信仰能带给我们什么? (ZT)
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peachleaf 写到:
Greentea 写到:
但是虽然科学无涯,可是仅仅因为世界有无穷层次的因果联系,并不说明科学能无限接近某个终极真理,如果它存在的话。科学对我的问题的回答,无论是 “因为你的血型是B”,还是“蚊子的感受器只对B型血或O型血敏感”,还是更深层次的,永远是种事实与事实的时空关系和因果联系。可以说科学并没有回答我的问题,只是用更精确的语言重复了我的问题。究竟是什么终极原因,溶解在无穷的因果联系里,最后导致蚊子喜欢咬我,佛家弟子会告诉我那是缘,基督徒会告诉我那是上帝,而康德会告诉我那是个科学不可能回答的问题。是的,科学亦有涯。


greentea MM,你
  • Nike
  • 注册于:2005-07-25
  • 帖子:2596
  • 所在地: Boston
发表于: 1/11/2006 15:55 发表主题: Re: 信仰能带给我们什么? (ZT)
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Accepting the fact that there may not be an answer to this question and not letting it bother you will bring you to a different level. At this level, you can pursue the truth (ultimate or not) freely.

Greentea 写到:
peachleaf 写到:

greentea MM,你
  • Greentea
  • 注册于:2004-09-20
  • 帖子:3170
发表于: 1/11/2006 16:52 发表主题: Re: 信仰能带给我们什么? (ZT)
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Thanks, Nike. No problem to accept the fact while still enjoy doing what I'm doing. smile
  • Greentea
  • 注册于:2004-09-20
  • 帖子:3170
发表于: 1/11/2006 17:02 发表主题:
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:!:
Got your point. Thanks.
Will borrow those books to read after I finish this not-so-great paper.
wildcrane 写到:
But the process of searching, questioning and attempting to address the questions are beatifully presented - that (beauty in quest) probably is more important (closer to truth) than searching truth itself.

To know, to accept, and to entertain our limit need a sense of perspective and a sense of humor, in my opinion.

  • August
  • 注册于:2004-11-03
  • 帖子:304
发表于: 1/11/2006 19:59 发表主题:
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我想, 在对世界的认识上, 我是个彻头彻尾的唯物论者, 崇尚科学。 我认为科学
可以回答清晰定义的命题。 许多唯心论(主观或客观)者往往制造一些含糊的命题
或进行非逻辑的推导来宣扬他们的观点, 把事物最终归于“神”,“绝对意志”
,“另一个陌生世界投在墙上的影子,” 或是客观世界是主观精神的产物。 还有
许多命题实际上是因为当时科学不发达对事物的缺乏了解而产生。 柏拉图, 康德
等等的哲学思考在人类认知的发展过程是有意义的, 然而, 在科学发达的今天却
是过时的。 譬如那个的例子, 一个杯子究竟是什么, 古人眼看, 手摸,
鼻闻, 得到一些现象, 他们仍然不能回答这个问题, 他们不知道为什么玻璃会
透明,遇热会熔化。 于是“现象”(Phenomenon)和神秘的“本体”(Thing-in-itself)
的概念便产生了, 而且还宣称本体是不可知的。 现在, 大家知道,如果清晰地定
义了问题 , 说明清楚在分子的层次, 一个杯子究竟是什么? 科学就可以告诉,
杯子是由二氧化硅分子聚在一起的一个中空容器。 在往下问, 原子的层次, 基
本粒子的层次, 都可以回答, 而那些现象,如透明, 折光, 颜色, 和硬度,
等等, 都可以同分子, 原子, 和其物质结构有严格的因果关系。 这时神秘的“本体”
(Thing-in-itself)的概念就没有意义了。


最后进行编辑的是 August on 1/11/2006 21:29, 总计第 2 次编辑
  • August
  • 注册于:2004-11-03
  • 帖子:304
发表于: 1/11/2006 20:07 发表主题: Re: 信仰能带给我们什么? (ZT)
引用并回复 快速引用
peachleaf 写到:
Greentea 写到:
但是虽然科学无涯,可是仅仅因为世界有无穷层次的因果联系,并不说明科学能无限接近某个终极真理,如果它存在的话。科学对我的问题的回答,无论是 “因为你的血型是B”,还是“蚊子的感受器只对B型血或O型血敏感”,还是更深层次的,永远是种事实与事实的时空关系和因果联系。可以说科学并没有回答我的问题,只是用更精确的语言重复了我的问题。究竟是什么终极原因,溶解在无穷的因果联系里,最后导致蚊子喜欢咬我,佛家弟子会告诉我那是缘,基督徒会告诉我那是上帝,而康德会告诉我那是个科学不可能回答的问题。是的,科学亦有涯。


greentea MM,你
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