乱想:on the interplay of being suggestive and being explici 10/24/2007 10:25
早晨进办公室,墙上一flyer: Doctors without boarders. 看成了 “Donuts without boarders". Do you think this is because I am hungry?

Art work is often suggestive so to create a situation that requires active participation of the viewers. The artist does not need to spell out all the details but instead to leave room for the viewers to fill in.

It is fair that I painted a rose with broad strokes of color and values without getting to each detail of a rose to suggest a rose. - That's Zhang's original approach in her novel.

Then another person took the story and artistically painted a vigina (阴道) very graphically and precisely as what it is (not suggestively here but explicitly or decidedly) . But then requires the audiance to see it as an abstract rose (yes, it depends because maybe to men the vigina is like rose or more than a rose)? Meanwhile, this vigina/rose is only a small part of a big picture and everywhere else in the big picture is so vague and blur. And then this person says that his intention is not for the viewer to focus on the vigina or abstract rose, whatever. Imagine a painting, is this possible?

Don't give me examples of Georgia O'keefe's paintings. In that case, she painted 花心 in a suggestive way so that the viewers could associate them with female genitals. But she does not refuse that was part of her intention and the two are naturally associated.

So I say, don't bullshit me. Or put in Anne's word, 别扭捏作态。

And in Georgia O'keefe's case, of course many people are/were going to follow her style. It is only natural.

But in painting the 花心 her way, she deserved to be credited to her originality as an artist.

However, in the second case, 床戏 is nothing new in the west. It is nothing new in Chinese novels and ancient graphic books. It is only because of the different norm in morality that it is not usually allowed in Chinese 银幕。 The only unique part of this person is that he first time brought Chinese real 'fxxxxxx' onto the Western 银幕.

Yes, I agree if you tell me that he is a great business man with good sense of time, place and what will make fame and money. However, for him to right away turn around and claim to have 心理负担 and 害怕华语片跟风拍床戏, I say the same as Annie has already spelled out: 扭捏个P阿。



Indeed, I have given a pictorial demenstration in my own writing that the whole is largely in English except I put 阴道 in 括号 and color。k, to the Chinese, 括号里的阴道也是阴道,你一眼就看见。Similarly, the whole movie, except the explicit sex, to the western audiance, the rest is as blur as if all written in Chinese characters. And if they (western audience) don't remember sex, what did Lee intend for them to remember?

And originally, I gave my writing the title of "乱想:on the interplay of being suggestive and being explicit". But if i want to draw your attention, I will title it what I do now, and that's another demo of why it is so named as "Lust, Caution". And that serves as a lure of you to get to read mine or to watch the movie.


smile
mainly agree your stand...
but i heard this movie is rated NC17, which means it won't make much money
in US theaters...况且,已经是很有份量的导演了,如果仅仅是这样的intention,
值得这个reputation risk吗? confused
漂亮可爱Jackalope at 10/24/2007 10:40 快速引用
漂亮可爱Jackalope :
mainly agree your stand...
but i heard this movie is rated NC17, which means it won't make much money
in US theaters...况且,已经是很有份量的导演了,如果仅仅是这样的intention,
值得这个reputation risk吗? confused


I have responded to this in Pheobe's post.

Again, the 'reputation risk' you mentioned only applis to the general people, not to celebrity.

To celebrity, it is no talk about them that kills them. So they are not afraid of being contraversial but afraid of silence. So after a while, they have to find something to stir the public in order to make fame and money for themselves.
wildcrane at 10/24/2007 10:46 快速引用
wildcrane :
漂亮可爱Jackalope :
mainly agree your stand...
but i heard this movie is rated NC17, which means it won't make much money
in US theaters...况且,已经是很有份量的导演了,如果仅仅是这样的intention,
值得这个reputation risk吗? confused


I have responded to this in Pheobe's post.

Again, the 'reputation risk' you mentioned only applis to the general people, not to celebrity.

To celebrity, it is no talk about them that kills them. So they are not afraid of being contraversial but afraid of silence. So after a while, they have to find something to stir the public in order to make fame and money for themselves.



真要是这样,那可让我太失望了。。。
虽然我很不愿意把人往坏处想

我还没看电影,等DVD出来在家研讨。。。
漂亮可爱Jackalope at 10/24/2007 10:55 快速引用
漂亮可爱Jackalope :
wildcrane :
漂亮可爱Jackalope :
mainly agree your stand...
but i heard this movie is rated NC17, which means it won't make much money
in US theaters...况且,已经是很有份量的导演了,如果仅仅是这样的intention,
值得这个reputation risk吗? confused


I have responded to this in Pheobe's post.

Again, the 'reputation risk' you mentioned only applis to the general people, not to celebrity.

To celebrity, it is no talk about them that kills them. So they are not afraid of being contraversial but afraid of silence. So after a while, they have to find something to stir the public in order to make fame and money for themselves.



真要是这样,那可让我太失望了。。。
虽然我很不愿意把人往处想

我还没看电影,等DVD出来在家研讨。。。


你这里说的“好坏”仍然是你自己的道德标准。人家不认为这样坏 - 强者生存论。
wildcrane at 10/24/2007 11:00 快速引用
wildcrane :
漂亮可爱Jackalope :
wildcrane :
漂亮可爱Jackalope :
mainly agree your stand...
but i heard this movie is rated NC17, which means it won't make much money
in US theaters...况且,已经是很有份量的导演了,如果仅仅是这样的intention,
值得这个reputation risk吗? confused


I have responded to this in Pheobe's post.

Again, the 'reputation risk' you mentioned only applis to the general people, not to celebrity.

To celebrity, it is no talk about them that kills them. So they are not afraid of being contraversial but afraid of silence. So after a while, they have to find something to stir the public in order to make fame and money for themselves.



真要是这样,那可让我太失望了。。。
虽然我很不愿意把人往处想

我还没看电影,等DVD出来在家研讨。。。


你这里说的“好坏”仍然是你自己的道德标准。人家不认为这样坏 - 强者生存论。


是呢,我正在努力用game theory来理解李导的行为,看看能不能predict下一个动作。。。
漂亮可爱Jackalope at 10/24/2007 11:03 快速引用
wildcrane :
漂亮可爱Jackalope :
mainly agree your stand...
but i heard this movie is rated NC17, which means it won't make much money
in US theaters...况且,已经是很有份量的导演了,如果仅仅是这样的intention,
值得这个reputation risk吗? confused


I have responded to this in Pheobe's post.

Again, the 'reputation risk' you mentioned only applis to the general people, not to celebrity.

To celebrity, it is no talk about them that kills them. So they are not afraid of being contraversial but afraid of silence. So after a while, they have to find something to stir the public in order to make fame and money for themselves.


不是有句老话吗:
I don't care what you say about me, as long as you get my name correct.
忘了是谁说的了


另外这个电影从这边两家影院本打算从11/5开始放一个礼拜,到现在有四家影院都在放,就说明有没有利可图了
像漂亮同学这样等DVD的也不在少数。DVD市场赚头不一定比影院少,现在很多电影一上映就紧接这开始卖DVD,就是这个道理。有些电影直接就是为DVD市场做的。
开会 at 10/24/2007 11:15 快速引用
我觉得你把艺术看得太技术化了.我觉得追求的应该是一种高潮,一种让自己失去控制的体验,一种极限的体验,去突破自己的局限.就象"crash"里面那样的.

你滑雪的时候没有追求突破自己的界限吗?
WoJian at 10/24/2007 11:36 快速引用
WoJian :
我觉得你把艺术看得太技术化了.我觉得追求的应该是一种高潮,一种让自己失去控制的体验,一种极限的体验,去突破自己的局限.就象"crash"里面那样的.

你滑雪的时候没有追求突破自己的界限吗?


All I have said is that if you intent to have an orgasim, admit it.
wildcrane at 10/24/2007 11:42 快速引用
wildcrane :
WoJian :
我觉得你把艺术看得太技术化了.我觉得追求的应该是一种高潮,一种让自己失去控制的体验,一种极限的体验,去突破自己的局限.就象"crash"里面那样的.

你滑雪的时候没有追求突破自己的界限吗?


All I have said is that if you intent to have an orgasim, admit it.


我说的是李安经历的高潮不是你说的阴道.
WoJian at 10/24/2007 15:05 快速引用
WoJian :
wildcrane :
WoJian :
我觉得你把艺术看得太技术化了.我觉得追求的应该是一种高潮,一种让自己失去控制的体验,一种极限的体验,去突破自己的局限.就象"crash"里面那样的.

你滑雪的时候没有追求突破自己的界限吗?


All I have said is that if you intent to have an orgasim, admit it.


我说的是李安经历的高潮不是你说的阴道.


Yes I am talking about him too.

I simply wanted to express if he 经历高潮, admit it.
wildcrane at 10/24/2007 15:44 快速引用
I changed the title back. zi ji look at it and feels bie niu.
wildcrane at 10/24/2007 15:47 快速引用
wildcrane :

Yes I am talking about him too.

I simply wanted to express if he 经历高潮, admit it.


看英文累死,偶来说白话中文吧

野鹤的意思是,他自己经历高潮了,然后说怕别人学他样去经历高潮,这是很奇怪的
开会 at 10/24/2007 15:52 快速引用
开会 :
wildcrane :

Yes I am talking about him too.

I simply wanted to express if he 经历高潮, admit it.


看英文累死,偶来说白话中文吧

野鹤的意思是,他自己经历高潮了,然后说怕别人学他样去经历高潮,这是很奇怪的


Laughing thank you.

这是很CD的
wildcrane at 10/24/2007 15:59 快速引用
wildcrane :
开会 :
wildcrane :

Yes I am talking about him too.

I simply wanted to express if he 经历高潮, admit it.


看英文累死,偶来说白话中文吧

野鹤的意思是,他自己经历高潮了,然后说怕别人学他样去经历高潮,这是很奇怪的


Laughing thank you.

这是很CD的


最近对名牌有点敏感,CD=? smile
开会 at 10/24/2007 16:03 快速引用
开会 :
wildcrane :
开会 :
wildcrane :

Yes I am talking about him too.

I simply wanted to express if he 经历高潮, admit it.


看英文累死,偶来说白话中文吧

野鹤的意思是,他自己经历高潮了,然后说怕别人学他样去经历高潮,这是很奇怪的


Laughing thank you.

这是很CD的


最近对名牌有点敏感,CD=? smile


Christian Dior

Laughing
wildcrane at 10/24/2007 16:10 快速引用
wildcrane :

Yes I am talking about him too.

I simply wanted to express if he 经历高潮, admit it.


电影的高潮是放易走那一段,可以说前面的一切都是为这一段,床戏也是。最让人难接受的就是放走易,也是争议最多的地方。对床戏的争议并没有比这个大,我觉得西方的屏幕上东方人的暴露也不算少。《色戒》也许只是稍多了一点点而已。

电影没有拍的很含蓄,符合它追求真实和残酷的效果。

每个电影都有高潮,哪有不追的?
rogerlee at 10/24/2007 16:11 快速引用
rogerlee :

每个电影都有高潮,哪有不追的?

不一定的,有的电影就整个很boring。。。
开会 at 10/24/2007 16:16 快速引用
rogerlee :
wildcrane :

Yes I am talking about him too.

I simply wanted to express if he 经历高潮, admit it.


电影的高潮是放易走那一段,可以说前面的一切都是为这一段,床戏也是。最让人难接受的就是放走易,也是争议最多的地方。对床戏的争议并没有比这个大,我觉得西方的屏幕上东方人的暴露也不算少。《色戒》也许只是稍多了一点点而已。

电影没有拍的很含蓄,符合它追求真实和残酷的效果。


Whatever, you like to think, you cannot convince me.

To let Yi go, is a twist that is a formula in movies and novels. 如果你稍微留意一下小说或电影的构思的话,意想不到的结局是一个重要的手法 - 这没什么争议的。

那张为什么没有做这样的铺垫呢?
wildcrane at 10/24/2007 16:16 快速引用
开会 :
rogerlee :
wildcrane :

Yes I am talking about him too.

I simply wanted to express if he 经历高潮, admit it.


电影的高潮是放易走那一段,可以说前面的一切都是为这一段,床戏也是。最让人难接受的就是放走易,也是争议最多的地方。对床戏的争议并没有比这个大,我觉得西方的屏幕上东方人的暴露也不算少。《色戒》也许只是稍多了一点点而已。

电影没有拍的很含蓄,符合它追求真实和残酷的效果。

每个电影都有高潮,哪有不追的?


你说的是电影内容的高潮
我见和野鹤说的是李安追求兴趣爱好上的高潮


good point. I didn't associate the two 高潮.

不数钱了。留着主席给人家数就够了 wink Laughing

咱么今晚去画一会儿画吧?给偶电话。
wildcrane at 10/24/2007 16:19 快速引用
wildcrane :

Whatever, you like to think, you cannot convince me.

To let Yi go, is a twist that is a formula in movies and novels. 如果你稍微留意一下小说或电影的构思的话,意想不到的结局是一个重要的手法 - 这没什么争议的。

那张为什么没有做这样的铺垫呢?


“意想不到的结局”,这是我看小说的感觉,看电影就没有。

张为什么没有做这样的铺垫?我回头写小说和电影的对比再说吧。
rogerlee at 10/24/2007 16:27 快速引用
rogerlee :
wildcrane :

Whatever, you like to think, you cannot convince me.

To let Yi go, is a twist that is a formula in movies and novels. 如果你稍微留意一下小说或电影的构思的话,意想不到的结局是一个重要的手法 - 这没什么争议的。

那张为什么没有做这样的铺垫呢?


“意想不到的结局”,这是我看小说的感觉,看电影就没有。

张为什么没有做这样的铺垫?我回头写小说和电影的对比再说吧。


主席偶印象中你已经至少三回头了 狂笑 狂笑

到底啥时候写啊
开会 at 10/24/2007 16:28 快速引用
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