Fa Lun Gong??? 9/11/2005 12:41
I keep seeing the gathing of Fa Lun Gong in downtown area almost every city I visited in the States. Is it annoying? Am I overreacted? I'm confused. Is that good for Americans to know China in such a bad manner?

I was walking around with some American friends yesterday and happened to note Fa Lun gathing in Boston Common. The Americans dropped by and felt so astonished by those bloody pictures. I felt so mad.... frustrated
I don't care if FLG right or wrong,
but whoever wish to change his own country's policy through foreign interfering, BS him to death!
Oz at 9/12/2005 10:57 快速引用
I agree with you. Country can only interact each other, not interfere each other. My question for you is: in what way you think they(FLG) can change their country's policy?


Oz :
I don't care if FLG right or wrong,
but whoever wish to change his own country's policy through foreign interfering, BS him to death!
rogerlee at 9/12/2005 11:36 快速引用
I can't answer since I am not in their shoes.
I can't pretend I know what their major problem is, and what's the cause of it.

out of topic:
To my opinion, what religious people need to do is simply changing themselves in their true deep heart to whatever they believe in,
that's fair and enough.
If they set great examples and other people who are willing to follow, that's very fine and fair.
But no one has the right to convert other people's belief, though converting is kinda human nature, because the fear of differences.(countries follow the same)

[quote="rogerlee"] My question for you is: in what way you think they(FLG) can change their country's policy?
[quote]
Oz at 9/12/2005 12:13 快速引用
I am not in their shoes either. But, I do support their rights to demostrate peacefully, in public what they believe. It's just like I will support your rights to against them peacefully and in public too. I think it's been discussed before.
rogerlee at 9/12/2005 13:51 快速引用
I think those people are nice normal people but it's a cult in that it's been going so overboard that its believers don't hear other sides of the story.

I've seen some of their paintings and they looked really gross. I wonder if it's just me who dislike horror scenes or if it's them who might intend to disgust the audience.
Annie at 9/12/2005 14:21 快速引用
Annie, I saw those paintings and dislike those "arts". But, it's not as horrible as some "arts" made of dead baby bodies, is it?
Again, they have their rights to express their believes peacefully, in public.

Annie :
I think those people are nice normal people but it's a cult in that it's been going so overboard that its believers don't hear other sides of the story.

I've seen some of their paintings and they looked really gross. I wonder if it's just me who dislike horror scenes or if it's them who might intend to disgust the audience.
rogerlee at 9/12/2005 15:24 快速引用
and how do you understand their "peaceful" demonstration overboard?
How about the disturbing content of the peaceful demon?

rogerlee :
I am not in their shoes either. But, I do support their rights to demostrate peacefully, in public what they believe. It's just like I will support your rights to against them peacefully and in public too. I think it's been discussed before.
Oz at 9/12/2005 15:40 快速引用
My judge is simple. They demo theirs in right place(in other words, it's legal place) and the process is in peace. Then, it's not overboard.

For paintings, no matter what content and how disturbing I feel, I can choose not to see it. I may write article to discuss or warn people not to support it for reasons. But, I don't think I have RIGHT to stop them. They are not illegal. In my case, when I entered the room and saw those paintings, I stayed there in less than 10 seconds because I knew I didn't like them.

In most cases, I will give my reasons to others to against a disturbing content, not my feelings to against it. I care more of violence in movies for kids than those paintings because those paintings show in a very well controlled environment and, from my point of view, nothing wrong in them.


Oz :
and how do you understand their "peaceful" demonstration overboard?
How about the disturbing content of the peaceful demon?
rogerlee at 9/12/2005 16:50 快速引用
by overboard I mean in foreign country, not overreacting etc.
I am more concerned with the purpose or intention of the demo itself, and why it happens to be in U.S. etc.
Oz at 9/12/2005 17:03 快速引用
This is "overboard" if they: demo in a place it's not allowed; or in a time not allowed. I don't think their content will overboard in the US.

For their purpose/intention, you can not guess what's their purpose. If you doubt any of their purpose, you can give your evidence to warn people to be care of their purpose/intention.

For the reason it happens to be in the US, that could be a good topic. There are so many things happening in the US, not in China. Will you concern all of their purpose/intention?


Oz :
by overboard I mean in foreign country, not overreacting etc.
I am more concerned with the purpose or intention of the demo itself, and why it happens to be in U.S. etc.
rogerlee at 9/12/2005 17:31 快速引用
Yes, everyone has his/her right to express opinions and to demonstrate peacefully in public. However, I don’t like FLG because they told so many lies and made so many stories in newspapers and demonstrations. I hate that they put those pictures that are very graphic in front of different audience including women and children.
hailang at 9/12/2005 18:54 快速引用
hailang :
Yes, everyone has his/her right to express opinions and to demonstrate peacefully in public. However, I don’t like FLG because they told so many lies and made so many stories in newspapers and demonstrations. I hate that they put those pictures that are very graphic in front of different audience including women and children.


Strongly agree!!! That's why I feel so annoying. We're Chinese and it's so bad to piss off our own country
Gesmy at 9/12/2005 23:15 快速引用
Hailang, if you don't trust their newspaper, don't read them. Read what you trust. If you think they lie, reveal the true story. You cannot make them not speaking what they believe no matter how much you don't like!
Their newspaper tell some sad reports/stories. Sad stories are different from violent stories.


hailang :
Yes, everyone has his/her right to express opinions and to demonstrate peacefully in public. However, I don’t like FLG because they told so many lies and made so many stories in newspapers and demonstrations. I hate that they put those pictures that are very graphic in front of different audience including women and children.
rogerlee at 9/12/2005 23:36 快速引用
聪明的请你告诉我,法论工和基督教到底有什么相同和不同的地方? oops oops oops

俺不喜欢那些一神论的宗教。不喜欢就有权利讲出来。所以对于轮子们的所作所为,我无话可说。他们有freedom of speech 的权力。但俺不喜欢他们。大纪元之类的东西俺是懒得看的。但迫害他们就不对了。
blueZ at 9/13/2005 09:52 快速引用
I don't know if those demon-er can even represent the majority of FLGer.
The seperation line between those mentioned above demon-er and majority others (include non-demon-believer and non-believer) is that the first party puts its religion above nation by seeking sympathizer or supporter overseas.
Oz at 9/13/2005 10:35 快速引用
Roger, your points are well taken.

I would appreciate the attitude of “别声响” when talking about personal life. smile

However, I encourage people to speak out their opinions on social issues, especially on those issues that may affect themselves. As members of the intellectual group of the society, our responsibilities include observing, analyzing, criticizing and advising. I will continue to watch the FLG things, make my own judgments and express my opinions.

I would like to ask people to think the following questions. Is FLG a pure qigong or religious group as they claim? Do they have their political agenda and accept money from somewhere? Are those “news” in their newspaper true? For example, are there more than 4, 200, 000 CCP members in China making statement to quit CCP?

I knew FLG told so many lies in the past and would like to list two examples here. I checked the original sources and confirmed them at the time. When I say “they were lying”, it is not an issue of “speaking what they believe” any more, I truly doubt their intention.

http://www.xys.org/xys/netters/Fang-Zhouzi/religion/wp_falun.txt

http://www.xys.org/xys/netters/others/talk/dajiyuan.txt



[quote="rogerlee"]Hailang, if you don't trust their newspaper, don't read them. Read what you trust. If you think they lie, reveal the true story. You cannot make them not speaking what they believe no matter how much you don't like!
Their newspaper tell some sad reports/stories. Sad stories are different from violent stories.


[quote="hailang"]Yes, everyone has his/her right to express opinions and to demonstrate peacefully in public. However, I don’t like FLG because they told so many lies and made so many stories in newspapers and demonstrations. I hate that they put those pictures that are very graphic in front of different audience including women and children.[/quote][/quote]
hailang at 9/13/2005 11:09 快速引用
It's interesting. Hehe, I never know ppl will have interest in my diary. Looks like it's an interesting topic. Laughing
Gesmy at 9/13/2005 11:23 快速引用
blueZ :
聪明的请你告诉我,法论工和基督教到底有什么相同和不同的地方? oops oops oops


一个的目的是把主席搞下台,一个的目的是把上帝搞光大

(个人看法,不一定正确)
Annie at 9/13/2005 14:36 快速引用
Hailang, you are great. They(FLG) did something bad. But, what they did will decease their credit and people will trust them less. They still have their rights to demo what they really believe. Again, you cannot stop their right to tell/demo what they believe peacefully in public.

No matter how many members they claimed quits CCP. Their number is just another online voting. It cannot be seriously trusted.

I think we agree on this: there are many lies on this world. we do need to be aware of those lies, including theirs. We must reveal the truth, but keep their rights to speak.


hailang :
Roger, your points are well taken.

I would appreciate the attitude of “别声响” when talking about personal life. smile

However, I encourage people to speak out their opinions on social issues, especially on those issues that may affect themselves. As members of the intellectual group of the society, our responsibilities include observing, analyzing, criticizing and advising. I will continue to watch the FLG things, make my own judgments and express my opinions.

I would like to ask people to think the following questions. Is FLG a pure qigong or religious group as they claim? Do they have their political agenda and accept money from somewhere? Are those “news” in their newspaper true? For example, are there more than 4, 200, 000 CCP members in China making statement to quit CCP?

I knew FLG told so many lies in the past and would like to list two examples here. I checked the original sources and confirmed them at the time. When I say “they were lying”, it is not an issue of “speaking what they believe” any more, I truly doubt their intention.

http://www.xys.org/xys/netters/Fang-Zhouzi/religion/wp_falun.txt

http://www.xys.org/xys/netters/others/talk/dajiyuan.txt



rogerlee :
Hailang, if you don't trust their newspaper, don't read them. Read what you trust. If you think they lie, reveal the true story. You cannot make them not speaking what they believe no matter how much you don't like!
Their newspaper tell some sad reports/stories. Sad stories are different from violent stories.


hailang :
Yes, everyone has his/her right to express opinions and to demonstrate peacefully in public. However, I don’t like FLG because they told so many lies and made so many stories in newspapers and demonstrations. I hate that they put those pictures that are very graphic in front of different audience including women and children.
rogerlee at 9/13/2005 14:59 快速引用
请教, 如果我在公共场合peacefully说脏话骂人(不是诽谤和人身攻击) 8) , 这在米国算不算过分? 违法不违法? confused wink
xy at 9/13/2005 15:11 快速引用
你回来了?打算在哪骂?我们去看看?

我相信不算,但你可能会被认为你有精神障碍,如果是自己一个人骂。
还有,骂人不能用威胁性的字,如 kill...

xy :
请教, 如果我在公共场合peacefully说脏话骂人(不是诽谤和人身攻击) 8) , 这在米国算不算过分? 违法不违法? confused wink
rogerlee at 9/13/2005 15:19 快速引用
[quote="xy"]请教, 如果我在公共场合peacefully说脏话骂人(不是诽谤和人身攻击) 8) , 这在米国算不算过分? 违法不违法? confused wink[/quote]

A long time ago, I saw a guy and a lady yelled each other near Aquarium in public. F-words were shot loudly. Nobody did anything. However I was not sure if there was any policeman nearby wink There was no physical action 衰

Democracy is about compromise and toleration. Good things come with bad, so vice versa.
Camel at 9/13/2005 15:22 快速引用
我谁都不想骂. 俺是想说, 既然不违法, 我们也可以peacefully想说啥就说啥, 大家半斤八两, 嘿嘿 Laughing
xy at 9/13/2005 15:23 快速引用
对啊,想说啥就说吧。我敢打赌好多人等着听呢。

xy :
我谁都不想骂. 俺是想说, 既然不违法, 我们也可以peacefully想说啥就说啥, 大家半斤八两, 嘿嘿 Laughing
rogerlee at 9/13/2005 15:26 快速引用
[quote="rogerlee"]你回来了?打算在哪骂?我们去看看?

我相信不算,但你可能会被认为你有精神障碍,如果是自己一个人骂。

[/quote]

一个人骂 好像不民主噢 wink
Camel at 9/13/2005 15:33 快速引用
可以算,条件是如果有2个人或以上听到你这些诋毁某人(某团体)名誉的话,并且你说的不全基于事实的话.
你可能会被告上法庭

xy :
请教, 如果我在公共场合peacefully说脏话骂人(不是诽谤和人身攻击) 8) , 这在米国算不算过分? 违法不违法? confused wink
Oz at 9/13/2005 15:36 快速引用
您把我的前提条件忽略了, frustrated
xy at 9/13/2005 15:39 快速引用
你想去也可以啊。

Camel :
rogerlee :
你回来了?打算在哪骂?我们去看看?

我相信不算,但你可能会被认为你有精神障碍,如果是自己一个人骂。



一个人骂 好像不民主噢 wink
rogerlee at 9/13/2005 15:42 快速引用
骂人而又能不诋毁别人
那只能是骂自己了
那没事,只要你不去告发自己就好了
Success
xy :
您把我的前提条件忽略了, frustrated
Oz at 9/13/2005 15:49 快速引用
如果说fukc you, 这是不是诋毁别人?

Oz :
骂人而又能不诋毁别人
那只能是骂自己了
那没事,只要你不去告发自己就好了
Success
xy :
您把我的前提条件忽略了, frustrated
xy at 9/13/2005 15:51 快速引用
不算,尤其是当听到的人fuc you back,就两迄了.
都没有虚假的事实为背景


xy :
如果说fukc you, 这是不是诋毁别人?

Oz :
骂人而又能不诋毁别人
那只能是骂自己了
那没事,只要你不去告发自己就好了
Success
xy :
您把我的前提条件忽略了, frustrated
Oz at 9/13/2005 16:12 快速引用
"The best way to counter obnoxious speech is with more speech. Persuasion, not coercion, is the solution."
blueZ at 9/13/2005 16:17 快速引用
如果对牛弹琴有用的话, 那就尽情地弹吧 support
xy at 9/13/2005 16:41 快速引用
Oz :
骂人而又能不诋毁别人
那只能是骂自己了
那没事,只要你不去告发自己就好了
Success


这不要太容易哟.别忘记我们中国人是擅长文字游戏并且最会钻空子的.smile

其实自由显然是该有约束的,包括自由言论.如果有人在别人家门口的街道上天天在那里说某某怎样怎样,请注意他只说某某而不指名道姓,站在公共场所说不可证明的话,自由是自由了,不影响别人生活才怪了呢.

这个世界之所以没有乱成那样主要也是大家都太忙了,没有这个功夫去牺牲自己的时间去打搅别人的时间.而有些人太闲了显然也是某功那些作为的一种根源.

对付小孩最有效的方法就是找个好玩的东西转移注意力,把手里的玩具硬抢走显然不会是好办法的.
WoJian at 9/14/2005 11:28 快速引用
xy :
您把我的前提条件忽略了, frustrated


嘿,你在这里躲着呢. smile 我们在背后说了你很多话呢. Laughing Laughing
WoJian at 9/14/2005 11:29 快速引用
Annie :


一个的目的是把主席搞下台,一个的目的是把上帝搞光大

(个人看法,不一定正确)


说句对宗教不敬的话:连宗教都是人打着上帝的大旗强求别人就犯呢.

God bless America. 到底是因为有庇护有令箭所以能行使上帝的权力呢?还是做个乖孩子才会得到上帝的宠爱?
WoJian at 9/14/2005 11:36 快速引用
“有令箭所以能行使上帝的权力”,是要利用上帝;“做个乖孩子才会得到上帝的宠爱”,是敬畏上帝;而对信上帝的来说,“God bless America”只是相信上帝。

WoJian :
Annie :


一个的目的是把主席搞下台,一个的目的是把上帝搞光大

(个人看法,不一定正确)


说句对宗教不敬的话:连宗教都是人打着上帝的大旗强求别人就犯呢.

God bless America. 到底是因为有庇护有令箭所以能行使上帝的权力呢?还是做个乖孩子才会得到上帝的宠爱?
rogerlee at 9/14/2005 13:38 快速引用
你设计一个超好玩的“功”给闲着没事干的吧。

WoJian :
Oz :
骂人而又能不诋毁别人
那只能是骂自己了
那没事,只要你不去告发自己就好了
Success


这不要太容易哟.别忘记我们中国人是擅长文字游戏并且最会钻空子的.smile

其实自由显然是该有约束的,包括自由言论.如果有人在别人家门口的街道上天天在那里说某某怎样怎样,请注意他只说某某而不指名道姓,站在公共场所说不可证明的话,自由是自由了,不影响别人生活才怪了呢.

这个世界之所以没有乱成那样主要也是大家都太忙了,没有这个功夫去牺牲自己的时间去打搅别人的时间.而有些人太闲了显然也是某功那些作为的一种根源.

对付小孩最有效的方法就是找个好玩的东西转移注意力,把手里的玩具硬抢走显然不会是好办法的.
rogerlee at 9/14/2005 13:41 快速引用
rogerlee :
“有令箭所以能行使上帝的权力”,是要利用上帝;“做个乖孩子才会得到上帝的宠爱”,是敬畏上帝;而对信上帝的来说,“God bless America”只是相信上帝。



你理解的恰恰就是一个本来应该的极端,而另一个极端不一定需要是主观地想到是在利用上帝的.从一个极端到另一个极端漂移不需要很多努力的.不管是否是在为自己的集团谋利,只需要自以为是在"替天行道"就可以了,比如布某.
WoJian at 9/14/2005 14:52 快速引用
说实话,我读不懂你这段话。“不一定需要是主观地想到是在利用上帝的”是一种极端吗?

WoJian :
rogerlee :
“有令箭所以能行使上帝的权力”,是要利用上帝;“做个乖孩子才会得到上帝的宠爱”,是敬畏上帝;而对信上帝的来说,“God bless America”只是相信上帝。



你理解的恰恰就是一个本来应该的极端,而另一个极端不一定需要是主观地想到是在利用上帝的.从一个极端到另一个极端漂移不需要很多努力的.不管是否是在为自己的集团谋利,只需要自以为是在"替天行道"就可以了,比如布某.
rogerlee at 9/14/2005 15:09 快速引用
太深奥了
又把我弄丢了
Annie at 9/14/2005 16:26 快速引用
rogerlee :
说实话,我读不懂你这段话。“不一定需要是主观地想到是在利用上帝的”是一种极端吗?



你是说:太普遍了,所以不是极端了,是吧?smile同意.
WoJian at 9/15/2005 17:01 快速引用
我觉得是不是自以为“替天行道”是次要的,为自己集团某利益是主要的,美国是一个成功的例子,中国这方面作得不好,主要还是教育不够。

WoJian :
rogerlee :
“有令箭所以能行使上帝的权力”,是要利用上帝;“做个乖孩子才会得到上帝的宠爱”,是敬畏上帝;而对信上帝的来说,“God bless America”只是相信上帝。



你理解的恰恰就是一个本来应该的极端,而另一个极端不一定需要是主观地想到是在利用上帝的.从一个极端到另一个极端漂移不需要很多努力的.不管是否是在为自己的集团谋利,只需要自以为是在"替天行道"就可以了,比如布某.
Johann at 9/16/2005 10:49 快速引用
Johann :
我觉得是不是自以为“替天行道”是次要的,为自己集团某利益是主要的,美国是一个成功的例子,中国这方面作得不好,主要还是教育不够。



我的观念有所不同.我认为为自己集团某利益是必要的,但不是主要的.同意中国以前在这方面做得还不够好,现在做成这样子我可是认为很不容易了.
WoJian at 9/16/2005 11:21 快速引用
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